Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb box

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Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb box

Postby rozel » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:15 pm

Hi

I am expecting delivery of a new 1000 Gb Amstrad HD box next week and would like to transfer certain recorded and archived programs from my old Thompson HD box which has all but given up the ghost - it's hard drive is good however.

What I would like to do is ask a few questions please having done a bit of research over the last week and getting mega-confused lol!

A. The procedure to copy over everything from my existing box to the new one
I believe I must remove the hardrive from the Thompson and place this in a hard drive caddy, attach it to my PC and run Copy+. By doing so I am copying the programs and recording links etc temporarily to my PC and then place the new Amstrad hard drive in the caddy and again using Copy+, transfer everything to the new drive. Questions: -

1. I am running Windows 7 64-bit - will I be able to do it on my PC with this os? I do have another PC running XP

2. I have read stuff about "Darwin" - do I need to be concerned about this in any way? Going from a smaller drive to a larger one - do I need to follow any specific additional procedures etc etc?

3. Anything else that might be relevant before switching on the new HD box in situ within my HTS

B. Using +Extract to utlimately transfer to DVD some highly treasured recordings
I believe that it is possible, using this software, to "extract" to my PC certain FTA recordings. I further believe that this includes recordings made via BBC HD/BBC One HD, ITV HD and Channel 4 HD - is that correct? My aim is to ultimately transfer the HD footage with their respective DD soundtracks to BluRay discs in the future. Assuming I am right on all counts I have a few questions please: -

4. Again can I achieve this using Windows Seven 64-bit?

5. Will I achieve better and possibly easier results by upgrading to +Extract Plus?

6. Again is there anything I should bear in mind before attempting to mess with the old Thompson HDD?

I hope you can see where I am coming from and what I would like to achieve - also has anyone successfully done what I am looking to do and would like to talk me through their expeience(s) please?

Thank in anticipation of some help

roz
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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby pcbbc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:27 pm

1. I am running Windows 7 64-bit - will I be able to do it on my PC with this os? I do have another PC running XP
Copy+ runs fine on all 32 or 64 bit varieties of XP, Vista or Windows 7.

2. I have read stuff about "Darwin" - do I need to be concerned about this in any way? Going from a smaller drive to a larger one - do I need to follow any specific additional procedures etc etc?
Source box must NOT have received Darwin. Currently there is no Copy+ solution whatsoever if the source disk has Darwin.
Destination box does not matter if you have Darwin or not as long are using the stock supplied 1.5TB disk from the Amstrad DRX895 "1TB" unit.
If you are using any other disk over 1TB (e.g. 2TB) then destination box must be an Amstrad (only units that support >1TB) and must have received Darwin (otherwise you will get the recording overwrite issue).

3. Anything else that might be relevant before switching on the new HD box in situ within my HTS
Not that I am aware of.

+Extract questions need to be answered by Neil. I'm sure he will be along in a moment...
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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby rozel » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:41 pm

Thank you for your superbly quick response, much appreciated :) :) :)

Yes I still am a little confused about Darwin - it's not an easy concept to grasp. As the subject states I am going from an early Thompson to a new Amstrad. I know the early Thompson's hdd is less than 1000Gb - is it possible that it might have Darwin already?, I thought drives of less than 1Tb were not affected by this. Is there any definitive way I can check my existing Thompson to check one way or the other please?

Also regarding the new Amstrad - yes it will be the 1000Gb model, I am presuming the "DRX895" and yes I am not going to mess with this by, say, installing something larger. However are you saying that the actual drive in my unit will be 15000Gb? If so would I be right in assuming that 1000Gb will be available for recordings with the other 500Gb for things like "AnyTime"? If this is the case, I didn't know that and am very grateful for your knowledge :)

Edit: - Just googled and yes my assumption is right about the new drive - many thanks indeed for pointing this out :)

roz
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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby neildo » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:50 pm

rozel wrote:B. Using +Extract to utlimately transfer to DVD some highly treasured recordings
I believe that it is possible, using this software, to "extract" to my PC certain FTA recordings. I further believe that this includes recordings made via BBC HD/BBC One HD, ITV HD and Channel 4 HD - is that correct? My aim is to ultimately transfer the HD footage with their respective DD soundtracks to BluRay discs in the future. Assuming I am right on all counts I have a few questions please: -

The converter in +Extract is basic MPEG2 SD and isn't HD compatible. You can use a 3rd party converter for unencrypted HD recordings.

rozel wrote:4. Again can I achieve this using Windows Seven 64-bit?

Yes, my development PC is Win 7 x64

rozel wrote:5. Will I achieve better and possibly easier results by upgrading to +Extract Plus?

No. Version 0.3.0.7 on the downloads page was the last version I did as free. If it works for you then no need for Plus. There's a bug that might prevent reading your Sky HD hard disk recordings though.
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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby rozel » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:59 pm

Really very quick Neil - many many thanks.

Maybe I used the incorrect term by saying "extract" in my post - I assume I need to transfer the recordings in the first place using +Extract? That is what I meant then afterwards use a third party prog as you state - yes?

I just need to fathom this Darwin business out now - I am not sure how I can tell if I have Darwin or not - if I have, it seems I am screwed - and I assume the problem of Darwin covers the use of +Extract/+Extract Plus too?

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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby pcbbc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:17 pm

rozel wrote:Yes I still am a little confused about Darwin - it's not an easy concept to grasp. As the subject states I am going from an early Thompson to a new Amstrad. I know the early Thompson's hdd is less than 1000Gb - is it possible that it might have Darwin already?, I thought drives of less than 1Tb were not affected by this. Is there any definitive way I can check my existing Thompson to check one way or the other please?
Two problems with Darwin:
1. Previous versions of Copy+ did not quite format the disk in the same way as Sky would have. When Darwin arrived this resulted in to overwriting problems with disks over 1TB (although it was fine with disks under 1TB or the old software). This problem is now resolved with the latest release of Copy+ and will not concern you.
2. Copy+ does not currently support copying from Darwin disks of ANY size. Destination is unimportant as Darwin will upgrade the disk if necessary, either when it first sees it (box already has Darwin) or when Darwin subsequently hits the box. That is unless the destination disk is over 1TB, in which case you must ensure:
either a) you already have Darwin on the destination box;
or b) you are using the stock 1.5TB disk from a DRX895.

Checks for Darwin:
1. You have SYSF version number on the system details screen
2. You have Anytime+
3. You have the network setup screen
4. On loading the latest version of Copy+ and loading a source disk it will tell you if you have Darwin.

Also regarding the new Amstrad - yes it will be the 1000Gb model, I am presuming the "DRX895" and yes I am not going to mess with this by, say, installing something larger. However are you saying that the actual drive in my unit will be 15000Gb?
Yes.

If so would I be right in assuming that 1000Gb will be available for recordings with the other 500Gb for things like "AnyTime"? If this is the case, I didn't know that and am very grateful for your knowledge :)
Yes.
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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby rozel » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:39 pm

Brilliant - I think I have it now at last :)

I have checked my box under System Details and it certainly has not got Darwin, nor does it show any signs of the things you mention apart from Anytime, which is switched off to save unecessary disk activity, but no signs of Anytime+.

I just need you chaps to confirm that my thinking is now sound please -

As my present box is an early Thompson box circa 320Gb this box isn't being targeted for VOD by Sky and as a consequence is immune to the Darwin Update - Darwin being Sky's name for their VOD system. So my Thompson box hasn't and will not get the Darwin update.

Darwin initially screwed recordings made before the Darwin update and subsequently copied to drives using Copy+, in that after the target drive received the Darwin update, these recordings could not be played back. However you clever chaps released an update to your software preventing this corruption taking place. However there are still problems using Copy+ to transfer recordings from boxes which have Darwin.

Then I must ensure I either use the stock 1.5Gb drive in the new Amstrad unit coming on Monday or plug it in, check it has Darwin, if not, then do a "Force Update" - yes?

Please please confirm that I have this absolutely right and......

If the +Extract/+Extract Plus software is similarly affected please.

Regards

roz
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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby neildo » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:03 pm

rozel wrote:If the +Extract/+Extract Plus software is similarly affected please.


+Extract (any version) currently does not support Darwin. You can test it: install (0.4.0.8 ), connect your Sky HD, start +Extract. If you're presented with a popup complaining about Darwin then its no go I'm afraid.

Otherwise if you see a list of recordings (green padlocks - unencrypted recordings) then you're good to go.

Neil.
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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby rozel » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:08 pm

OK Thanks - I am assuming it will be same thing as for Copy+ then, so with a bit of luck, assuming +Extract sees my new HDD Caddy, it will show green unpadlocked recordings, given that my source disk will be free from Darwin :)

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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby pcbbc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:13 pm

rozel wrote:As my present box is an early Thompson box circa 320Gb this box isn't being targeted for VOD by Sky and as a consequence is immune to the Darwin Update - Darwin being Sky's name for their VOD system. So my Thompson box hasn't and will not get the Darwin update.
I'm not sure it's been confirmed by Sky that these boxes will never get Darwin.
However all that matters is that it doesn't have currently, which you have confirmed.

Darwin initially screwed recordings made before the Darwin update and subsequently copied to drives using Copy+, in that after the target drive received the Darwin update, these recordings could not be played back. However you clever chaps released an update to your software preventing this corruption taking place. However there are still problems using Copy+ to transfer recordings from boxes which have Darwin.
Correct.

Then I must ensure I either use the stock 1.5Gb drive in the new Amstrad unit coming on Monday or plug it in, check it has Darwin, if not, then do a "Force Update" - yes?
If you are using the stock 1.5TB disk, there is no requirement for Darwin either way.
This disk size is compatible with both old (pre-Darwin) and new (Darwin) disk formatting as supported by the fixed version of Copy+ - The ONLY size of disk over 1TB that is compatible pre and post-Darwin.
However for simplicity it is best to do as you suggest and to ensure the destination box has Darwin with the forced update.
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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby rozel » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:21 pm

Thanks to both of you for speedy and well informed answers to my questions. It's not often I get inside my Sky boxes but being one of the first adopters of Sky Plus and Sky Hd I like to keep up to date with things and I crave to archive in HD format on to BluRay my HD recordings of the John Wilson Orchestra at the last two years BBC Proms and his Christmas Special a few weeks ago and of course my delightful recording of Joanna Lumley's visit to see the Northern Lights - maybe at last this will be a possibility - I will keep this thread updated with my progress.

Again my most sincere thanks

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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby neildo » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:33 pm

You could always purchase an HD compatible satellite card for your PC and while connecting your dish output to that you will be able to record all the FTA stuff completely unmolested by Sky's internal hardware.

I have a movable dish with a quattro (NOT quad) lnb, 4 independent cable runs to a special multiswitch which gives 8 completely independent outputs. Two of which are main (HD) box, another two for a multiroom box (normal Sky+) and remaining 4 for testing (one for PC Sat card). Very useful... Not sure how much that sort of setup would cost as I did all the work myself.
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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby rozel » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:51 pm

:)

I have often thought about doing that as I used to dabble with moveable satellite dishes - in fact at one time became a bit of an expert. My moveable dish which like yours has more than one LNB has however rusted solid through lack of use and with all my other hobbies, I have little time for much else right now. However if I can find a way of archiving from my Sky HD box then that would appeal both to me and the Mrs and with a little bit of luck we may now have a solution - it is rare that we ever want to archive progs from none-fta channels and SD progs are absolutely no problem. It's mainly our BBC HD stuff, most of which is quite superb and now BBC 1 HD into the bargain :)

I just hope that Copy+ and +Extract can read and then copy over stuff from and to my discs, then I will be a very happy bunny, assuming they play back properly :) :)

I'm tempted to have a go this afternoon to see if they can copy over to my PC - I presume by doing so they won't be corrupted once I reinstall the the disc back into the box? If it works then I'm 50% on the way if not more, because I can then play about with the fta stuff on my PC. I will then wait patiently for my new box to arrive on Monday before deciding what to copy over, if indeed anything.

Btw is there any houskeeping that I could do to "clean up" the source drive whilst still in the HD box? I have never ventured into sky's setup menus much for fear of deleting stuff

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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby rozel » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:09 pm

Well been doing a bit of expeimenting with my new caddy and a few spare hdds lying around.

I fully understand that for Copy+ to see the destination disk, you need to delete the volume within Disk Management of Windows, so I figure that if I want to use Copy+ to transfer over my existing recordings to my new Amstrad's drive next week - I will first of all need to remove the drive from the Amstrad, place it in my caddy and within windows, delete the volume - is that correct?

And will Copy+ then reformat etc etc the destination disk when copying the recordings over?

If this is correct, then I fail to see why it matters whether the Amstrad's destination disk has darwin or not as it will be reformatted etc during the transfer process, unless I am missing something lol!

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Re: Tfr from early Thompson HD box to New Amstrad 1000 Gb bo

Postby pcbbc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:54 pm

rozel wrote:I fully understand that for Copy+ to see the destination disk, you need to delete the volume within Disk Management of Windows, so I figure that if I want to use Copy+ to transfer over my existing recordings to my new Amstrad's drive next week - I will first of all need to remove the drive from the Amstrad, place it in my caddy and within windows, delete the volume - is that correct?
Correct.

And will Copy+ then reformat etc etc the destination disk when copying the recordings over?
Correct.

If this is correct, then I fail to see why it matters whether the Amstrad's destination disk has darwin or not as it will be reformatted etc during the transfer process, unless I am missing something lol!
Because the Darwin software uses different disk formatting parameters for disks over 1TB to those of 1TB or under.
The only exception is the stock 1.5TB disk supplied with the DRX895. Specific exception is made for this disk so that it is both forward and backward compatible with the old and new Sky software. Basically Darwin continues to use the old formatting parameters for such disks (assuming it recognises them - which it didn't for Copy+ drives formatted prior to the latest version).
For any other disk over 1TB Sky assume the new formatting parameters with Darwin, and the old parameters pre-Darwin. Such disks can never be prepared to be both forward and backward compatible and any pre-Darwin recordings on them will suffer overwrites when Darwin is deployed (unless you run the fixer).

Copy+ takes the approach that most systems will have (or eventually will have) Darwin and so uses the new formatting parameters on anything other than a 1.5TB disk. 1.5TB disks are formatted so as to be compatible with both pre and post Darwin software in the way Sky expect.

For you it makes no difference because you are using the 1.5TB disk.
For someone else, with a 2TB for example, it is essential the destination box has Darwin because Darwin assumes the new disk formatting parameters as does Copy+.
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